Kis Keya is an all-around Belgian artist. In 2017, she launched the project “Extranostro” an Afroqueer web-series in French, to make the ethnic minorities within the LGBTQIA more visible on the screen, especially the one of African descent. Moreover, the web series aims to fight against homophobia within Black families, in Africa and Europe. Il Grande Colibrì interviewed her and invites you to participate in the crowdfunding on KissKissBankBank.
You define yourself as an artist. Could you tell us a little bit about your career?
I define myself as a painter and a film director. I started with plastic art but then, I focused more on painting. Additionally, I made fiction movies. Before the series, I directed experimental and poetic short-films, either in workshops on film-making, or on my own. Later, I directed 3 fiction movies of 24 – 26 minutes each, for which I really wrote a script. Afterward, I jumped into the project “Extranostro”. In the beginning, I started with the idea of directing a movie but I changed my mind later and embarked on the project of the web-series.
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And why have you chosen this format?
At first, my idea was to direct a feature film on homosexuality and homophobia in Black families. The plot would have been a bit dramatic as the characters would have lived a double life since they were not out of the closet. The production of a feature film can take years, and while I was working on that project, I saw videos and news on social media about homophobic stories inside Black families, in Africa and the U.S. One day, I read the story of a father who shot his twelve-year-old son at the head because he was gay. That was just too much.
Something had to be done rapidly. I needed a medium quicker to set up and to spread, as the risk with a movie is that it could end in a festival and some movie theatres only, thus reaching a limited audience. Here in Europe, frequently we don’t realize that in some countries it’s more complicated to go to the movies than watching a movie on the internet. So, I told myself that I needed a wide-ranging means of communication because, on one hand, some education has to be done among families and the audience so that they become aware of the existence of racialized LGBTQIA people. On the other hand, these people, especially the youngest ones that live in certain African countries, do not have a role-model in whom they can identify themselves, or someone to talk to.
Finally, with a series, the script can evolve along with the news and feedback from the audience, and I found this very interesting.
How did you come up with the title “Extranostro”?
Initially, I was looking for various sounds. One of the first words that crossed my mind was ‘extravaganza’. It is pretty much used, though. Yet, I wanted to keep part of that word to create something that, etymologically, has the meaning of ‘extreme’ or ‘outside’ – extra – and ‘our world’ – nostro. “Extranostro” refers to the topic of the series, which is the idea of people who fraternize, or even better, ‘sororize’, and reclaim their identity and their beauty. Besides, if someone goes on the internet and looks up “Extranostro”, s/he will get the web series as a result, since there nothing else has this title.
In an interview with the French LGBTQIA magazine Têtu, you talked about the American way to write a script. How did the writing of the script go? Did you follow that type of writing?
Usually, tv-series scripts are written by several people. In the U.S. a large group of people writes the script, and I would like to follow the same model. I wrote the script for the first three episodes, but I want to broaden the script-writing group, by involving others. My idea is to have people with different skills: for example, one who is specialized in writing dialogues, and another one in text structure.
It is really important for me that the group is made up of people who represent the characters of the series. I had this idea when something peculiar was revealed, regarding the script-writing group of the series Orange Is The New Black. I don’t know if from then on things have changed, but at that time there was no racialized woman. There were only white women, which explains why the series is full of stereotypes. For me, the scriptwriting group and the production group must be as representative as possible throughout the project.
About the “American style” of scriptwriting, I like its rhythm. The scenes are shorter, and the punchlines add rhythm. I am more inspired by American series than by French or European ones.
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This web series is based on the Afroqueer community of Brussels. Given the homophobia inside Afro-descendant communities, how was the casting for the roles of the Black characters?
The casting has not been easy. Due to the homophobia inside Afro-descendant families, many actors and actresses refused the roles of LGBTQIA characters, regardless of their sexual orientation. Actually, I did not specify that the actors had to be LGBTQIA (and here we could open another debate). What I point out, even now during our current casting, is that it is an LGBTQIA project and that, therefore, it is fundamental to be LGBTQIA-friendly. So yes, it was difficult because I needed to find Black actors and actresses who were willing to play those roles, and who fit the characters. Homophobia curbed the casting, but I tell myself that it is also because of this that I am making this web series.
For the pilot project, the casting started initially in Belgium and was later extended to France. I made it because the cast required only a few actors. Now that I am preparing the episodes of the first season, each one lasting more than 25 minutes, I have extended casting beyond the borders of Belgium and France, because there are more characters, and the cast is not complete yet.
What is your favorite character?
I got three. The first one is Bibiche, the main character, who takes the best of my writing skills. Then there is Quentin: he is not a racialized character and he will gain more importance later. He is so sweet! I think he is my favorite character: he is so fragile and he will be even more later. Moreover, the Afroqueerness, the club where Bibiche goes to, will become increasingly important in the plot. Consequently, the manager of the club, who we quickly see in an episode, will become more important. Lastly, without spoiling, there will be a very lively Asian girl in the first season. It is important for me that each character has got his/her own individuality since the role of “the black gay” or “the black lesbian” does not exist.
What was the reaction of the Afroqueer community and their families?
I didn’t get any feedback from families. However, I have received really positive feedback from the Black LGBTQIA audience both during the premiere and on the internet. Many told or wrote to me: “How nice! I can show it to my parents,” or “Thanks to this series, I have been able to come out with my parents.”
The fact that someone said: “I will show it to my parents” or “I will send the link to my family in Ivory Coast,” means that I have reached my goal. As the series is entertaining yet realistic, the viewers can use it as a tool to help their own families to understand or, at least, to open up, without being shocked. That is one of the main aims and it has been reached. I’m really satisfied.
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And how did the rest of the LGBTQIA community reacted?
We were anxious before the premiere of the pilot project. Since the money for the project is raised through crowdfunding, first of all, you need to rally people around the project. However, at that time we didn’t have any pictures to show. Therefore, some white LGBTQIA asked me: “How does this series concern me?” Once, a white lesbian told me that, since the main character is a Black gay man, this series doesn’t concern her. Others told me instead that it is a series of “double niche” because it is about racialized and LGBTQIA people. In the end, however, all of them appreciated “Extranostro” in the same way, Black and White people, LGBTQIA, and straight people.
Since there are many racialized characters, a really important topic of “Extranostro” is intersectionality: what do you think about it?
Intersectionality is a great topic of this period. In “Extranostro”, this topic comes up because very little is known about this particular social group. The cause is that, on one hand, you have African families that say: “Homosexuality does not exist among us”, and on the other hand, you have White people who don’t think that racialized LGBTQIA people exist. Thus, in between, you have a racialized LGBTQIA person, whom no one knows about.
The only example of a racialized LGBTQIA character shown by the media can be found in the US: the character of the funny, optimistic, black, and gay best friend. In most cases, however, this is not a real character, because he is used to showing how open-minded the production team is. In fact, with a Black and LGBTQIA friend, the production kills two birds with one stone: the main character of the movie is depicted as an open-minded person, while the casting director will only have to look for one actor, instead of two. I have taken the example of a Black man, but it is the same thing for an Asian or a Middle Eastern LGBTQIA character.
In the web series, I use an Afro-descendant point of view, but since I’m at it, I also involve other ethnic groups, because it is the same fight. So, as the plot of the series gradually unfolds, there will be Asian and Middle Eastern characters.
By doing so, you have relaunched the debate on the importance of the representation of minorities in media….
Yes, this series wants to give visibility to LGBTQIA ethnic minorities. Everyone needs to be represented and therefore legitimized. We often think that one must have a problematic profile, or belong to a minority, to need media visibility. In reality, it’s not like this: we all need it. It’s just that some categories of people receive that mediatic visibility no matter what.
In Europe, if you are a middle-aged, able-bodied, white straight man, you can see yourself anytime on TV or billboards. If you belong to that category, you are always represented. However, if you belong to marginalized social categories, you don’t get the same mediatic visibility, thus you feel less legitimized. This feeling gets even worse when you don’t have anyone to talk to, and with whom you can identify yourself.
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Why is it still so difficult, in 2020, to find racialized LGBTQIA characters on the big screen?
Filmmaking is an industry, a business, and this is not a bad thing per se. However, this also implies that there are people who invest money, hoping to make a profit. These investors assume that some stories are not “bankable” because they would not bring people to the movies. Therefore, to encourage viewers to go to the movies, it must be easy for everyone to identify himself/herself with the main character… And in which character people identify themselves the most? In the able-bodied, cis-hetero white male.
Furthermore, we must bear in mind that filmmaking depends on a sort of production line: what we see on the screen is the finished product. But, if there weren’t someone who writes the script, someone who produces it, and someone who edits it, well, there would not be a movie. This means that without a script that tells about racialized LGBTQIA characters and without investors willing to invest in the project, there will be neither actors nor movies.
Are there any differences between Europe and the U.S.?
There have been some changes in the United States, not because it’s less racist or homophobic as a country, but because there are women, Afro-Americans, and LGBTQIA people who are now producers, scriptwriters, and directors. In Europe however, the investors prefer to invest in those movies that reassure the audience as they represent a well-known reality, as in the case of the Black guy from the French banlieue, or of the illegal immigrant in the Belgian cinema. It’s sad to say that, but the producers and the decision-makers in the cultural field, most of whom are white, are not ready to let Black people write what they want.
Here’s an example: if I were to present the project of a feature-film showcasing African landscapes in which I tell that my father had four wives, I was unhappy, and that I was kidnapped and sexually mutilated, I would probably find the necessary funds. On the other hand, if I were to make a movie on contemporary life in a multicultural context in an African or a European city to relate about the same issues my White fellow countrywoman, “I would not be allowed to,” in quotes. Sometimes, I wonder if, in the collective subconscious of White people, all Black people have problems. And, unfortunately, the answer is ‘yes’.
In your interview with “Têtu”, while speaking of the visibility of minorities, you stated that “the people involved should produce [movies, ed.]” What would you advise the young directors or artists, who want to make their work known in a world where it is difficult to see racialized LGBTQIA people on screen?
Launch yourself into it and do everything by yourself, even though this implies doing several jobs at the same time. For instance, crowdfunding takes a lot of time from creation and, unfortunately, it cannot be otherwise. Still, it’s worth it. In the case of “Extranostro”, even though not everyone will see it, on the Internet, there is a series in French on Afroqueer people, that can maybe inspire one of the viewers to create his or her own series. The Internet can be a precious help because it allows you to realize small projects, even with your webcam. They can be interviews or stories, not necessarily web series. The most important thing is to not get discouraged.
As a perfectionist, I want to be at the highest level of film-making. Yet, I know that it has not been possible for me to reach that level because the funds were not enough. Nonetheless, it had and has to be done, regardless of the good or poor quality of the final product as we are among the pioneers, at a stage in which people start to get used to see and accept [racialized and/or LGBTQIA people, ed.] on the TV or at the movies. The important thing is that people see and know that racialized LGBTQIA people exist, and the more formats there are, the more space we should occupy.
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The shooting of the first season will start next April. How did the crowdfunding go this time?
This time the crowdfunding was slower than the one for the pilot project. Due to COVID-19 and to the lockdown, many of those working in the fields of arts and culture have lost their job. Thus, it’s more difficult for people to make donations. But I stay positive. I hope to begin to shoot in April 2021 because I don’t want to postpone it further. Otherwise, there would be too much delay.
Anyways, since crowdfunding is slower this time, I’m still mobilizing people and I’m still having some trouble in advertising the web series. Even on the Internet, it’s not easy to get out of one’s own bubble. The main aim of the series is to help those [LGBTQIA, ed.] people to access to the content of the web series. So, anyone who is in contact with an LGBTQIA community in a country, or who can share the link in his or her own network, would be of great help because, given that the film industry is a business, the bigger the audience, the more interested the investors will be in funding “Extranostro”.
Stefano Duc
©2020 Il Grande Colibrì
images: ©Kis Keya / Il Grande Colibrì
